31 December 2009

I Have seen it all now! The below ad is for a 12-day training to make you a non-dual guru--the next step in your evolution--for only $3,200! Please rush your application. 

Nondual Teacher and Therapist Trainings

North American Training - San Francisco, CA - March 2010 - Feb 2011 European Training - Paris, France - July 2010 - March 2011

Led by Peter Fenner, Ph.D.
Founder of Timeless Wisdom and Creator of Radiant Mind®

This Nondual Teacher and Therapist Training is designed for people who wish to expand and refine their capacity to offer nondual awareness as a component of their teaching, coaching or psychotherapy with individuals or groups.
The Nondual Teacher and Therapist Training is based on the synthesis of Asian nondual approaches that has been developed by Peter Fenner.  Peter’s approach has been refined and tested over 35 years by thousands of people in workshops, courses and retreats. His synthesis draws on the most powerful aspects of traditions such Madhyamika, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Zen and Advaita.  These are woven into a form of space creation and facilitation that is refined, minimalist, smooth, and very efficient in the delivery of the pure nondual contentless transmission in an interactive group setting.

A dynamic learning environment

The Training is unique in bringing together people from diverse nondual traditions and lineages. Together we create a synergistic dynamic that radically enhances everyone’s capacity to embody and share nondual awareness within their clients, communities and beyond. The framework for the Training is based on the form of nondual transmission that has been developed by Peter.  This framework provides a model and set of distinctions for discerning the subtleties of nondual transmission.  The framework is elaborated in a 320 page book prepared for the Training.
The Training is not limited to this framework.  You will share and demonstrate your own experiments and learning with others in the Training.  You will refine your capacity for nondual transmission through fieldwork in which you share nondual awareness through dialogs and contemplation with people outside of the Training.  You will learn through your own active engagement and focused feedback from Peter and other participants. The Training is thoroughly experiential.  Together we create a depth of immersion in nondual transmission that is unparalleled.

This training is for

  * Therapists and mental health professionals who want to explore the contribution of nonduality in individual therapy and group work.
  * People who have a solid grounding in a nondual spiritual approach such as Dzogchen, Zen or Advaita and are ready to share their wisdom with others.
  * Meditation teachers who wish to introduce a nondual dimension into their practical guidance and dharma discussions.
  * People who give satsang who wish to enhance their capacity to share nondual awareness and expand the reach of their transmission.
  * Graduates of the 9 month Radiant Mind course who wish to facilitate practice groups based on Radiant Mind resources.
Structure of the training
The training is built on:
  • Three four day retreats, one at the beginning, one in the middle, and another at the completion of the course.
  • A comprehensive 320 page Workshop Manual.
  • Eight teleconferences with Peter and other participants.
  • Four individual coaching sessions with Peter.
  • A vital and supportive training community.
  • Working with the training materials in your own practice or community.
  • Requirements
Acceptance into the course is through an online application form.  If we have any questions about an application, we will arrange a telephone interview.  In the Training you are required to work with a group of your own.  This can be an informal group of friends you bring together on a regular basis to engage in nondual work. It could be a select group of clients who are ready for nondual transmission.  It could be a group of professional colleagues who work together to explore the parameters of nonduality in therapy. It may be a sangha or community you are already guiding in meditation, dharma or satsang.  If you don’t already have an existing group we will help you establish this.

Our invitation

imageIf many of the themes outline above make sense to you, you may be well prepared for this Training. If you feel that this Training is the next step in your own evolution, please complete the online Application Form. You are also welcome to contact us to answer any questions and give you more precise details.  Places in the Training are limited to 25 so we recommend that you apply without delay.


Upon acceptance into the Training you will be sent a Registration Form by email.  Your place in the Training will be secured upon receipt of the Registration Form and a deposit of $750 (USA Training) or 500 euro (European Training).  If you cancel your registration one month prior to participation in the Training your deposit will be refunded less a $100 or 75 euro processing fee.  Deposits are nonrefundable for registrations canceled less than one month prior to the commencement of the Training.  Payment details will be included with on the Registration Form.

NORTH AMERICAN TRAINING - Near San Francisco, California - Mercy Center Burlingame (Click here for more information).

USA Training
$3,200 (if payment is received in full on or before January 18, 2010)
$3,400 (if payment is received in full after January 18, 2010)


I am undergoing a major change in perspective. As I feel the connection growing backwards towards "ME" nothing ahead of me seem fascinating as before or holding my attention.

Actually ever since the background ME took more prominence, I do not feel the need to witness my thoughts, my body or even consciousness (oneness).BECAUSE IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THEY EXIST OR NOT. All these are now viewed as ONE consciousness body, thoughts, emotions, Iamness, beingness or oneness).

Attention is drawn at the back now and to the consciousness as a whole.And that consciousness as a whole keeps changing from appearing to non-appearing.

So witnessing of thoughts or body or emotions or oneness as seperate from Consciousness is no more there. It is all ONE part of Unity Consciousness which  appears and disappears. Consciousness is taking forms as Rajiv,joy,sadness,thoughts,body and even beingness.Infact everything perceivable now is Consciousness and nothing of it MATTERS anymore.

Individually they do not warrant my attention now.They may or not exist.I simply let them do whatever form onsciousness wants to be in.I may choose to  even not witness them because how does it matter.

I can not communicate in words Master all this feeling.There is tremendous inward silence and happiness and everything at the consciousness level is noise.I infact get a voice within which is contrary to what the Masters or books in the past has said about Witnessing every thought or about being aware. My feeling says IGNORE all this. Do not even BE. You are not even a "Being".

Till yesterday evening I was in a major depression. There were millions of conflicting thoughts and varied emotions. Doubts filled my mind and fear had suddenly taken control of my being. All I told myself is that all this will pass. This is not ME. There was tremendous darkness and I was engulfed in tremendous grief and sadness.

Today morning has been very different. I feel I have woken up to a new reality. Perhaps there is no witnesser even because witnessing is missing many times and no Being. There is only happiness and peace. Anything else even if they exist or not exist DO NOT matter. 


Yes, yes, yes! Consciousness itself is trivial, coming and going, changing, unreal--and One, but the One is not real. When it goes there is complete happiness.

I am so happy that you have come so far so soon!

Don't lose this place you are. Stabilize and grow there.

The not-knowing state will continue to reveal more and more, but in a completely different way than when consciousness was your teacher.


Master nothing was possible without You. I am truly happy Now. The depression was probably necessary last evening. Now there is intense sense of security and a freedom from everything including consciousness.
Thank You Master a zillion times

30 December 2009

I get maybe a hundred emails a week about practice or other questions. I post maybe two a week. I would post a lot more, but I really don't have the time, and on many, I'd have to post several paragraphs of context, which takes more time.

I am still a working stiff so to speak, trying to write boring medical reviews and reports during the weekdays. 

But I feel a special connection with Rajiv because his experiences are so similar to my own along the way. Previously I have felt that connection with other questioners too, but they no longer write.

Here is what Rajiv wrote and my response:

Last night was "terrible" in one way and not so in another way :-)

I was lying down to sleep but just could not fall into it. An hour passed and then two hours passed by. I was getting a bit anxious why thoughts were disturbing me so much. There were  influx of various thoughts and I was witnessing all of them. It was all automatic. I could not even let go not watching them. 3 hours passed by and I thought I was nearly losing my mind. A part of me told me it was all unreal yet another part of mind was telling me I was treading wrong in my life. Stop all this practice and be human again, start living in desires and enjoy life. I was witnessing all of these careful not to identify with all this as I knew all this would pass. But it was getting tougher as the night was slipping away. I was starting to get a bit anxious.
I observed I was actually looking deeply at the third eye and watching the flow of thoughts. Somehow I felt watching at the void ahead was resulting in more thoughts. It was me, the void ahead at the third eye and the influx of thoughts and no "meditation" was actually helping. Very strange indeed. Where has all the bliss and joy gone???

For the first time a doubt slowly crept and a fear too. Am I getting depressed?? A sadness filled my heart. It was a very dark  night. Nothing seemed to work. My mind was extremely active during the whole time even as my body was tiring with all this. I was feeling frustrated and extremely helpless. The mind was telling me see how others are sleeping well and you are losing every bit of sleep. You are disturbing your set life and of your family.

Yet another part told me do not listen to anything the mind tells me.  It was one mind against the other.  All of this was thought anyways and I realized that. Even as a witnesser, I was getting engulfed in the war between the two. The void ahead was alive and so was my mind. There was movement and stirring happening at the void ahead and the mind was active catching them. There was no peace at all.

Then suddenly out of the Blue at around 5 am I remembered your teaching. A voice told me stop all this witnessing NOW. Just move backwards to the real Self and stay there. Just Be aware of that  state. DO IT NOW.

I turned my attention away from the void,the thought and moved towards the background. It is felt as a totality of the body first and then it is felt as something beyond the body too.

As I connected with that, all thoughts disappeared, a natural joy and sense of happiness and security was felt. It was like a child finally getting to sit on his mothers lap. Such was the sense of security and warmth. The sinking into the background bought about a natural calmness, joy and total freedom from disturbing thoughts.

Next I knew that I was in a dream state,knowing I was dreaming and I was finally happy in my deam too :-). I slept for maybe  3 hours or so but do not feel I missed much of it.

For the first time ever I realized that looking intensely at the third eye exploring the void may not be such a good practice afterall. It is best just to sink backwards and try and BE one with that state. There is tremendous security and stability there. Rest is all play.

Many Pranams.
I bow at your feet a million times,


My Response:

Good lesson well taken!!!!!

Yes, I spent many years exploring the Void, probably as deeply as anyone has explored it. But opening the void to realize the clear light of consciousness only opens space for realization of the emptiness of thoughts and the physical body to be realized in. No enlightenment happens because of exploration of the Void.

Going backwards into the self always seems to bring happiness, even if you can only go back as far as the body sense.

The void is a vision sort of thing, associated with the brain and eyes. The I-sense is not. The I Amness sensation appears to be about the heart center for some, but is really deeper, beyond the body sense.

Good going for you!!!!



Ah yes Master. But for you this lesson may never have been learned by me at all. Just moving backwards is all that there is.

I am completely done with exploring deeply at the void.It can play havoc with ones mind and thoughts and with ones being.

It is real bad practice though I am not sure why sadhak still choose to explore them. That may be the problem with deep meditation. Most feel meditation is third eye exploration and are mislead. It is the "beingness" whether you feel at the heart center or as the totality of the body. This is where we all need to abide. This is all we need to reach rather than explore further and further. I am completely done with this.

Ah Master what a lesson you gave me last night.

I always valued your teachings but some understandings come only by direct experience.I went through this very important lesson and nearly nearly lost my mind.I got nearly Mad.

The feeling of beingness itself melts all searchings and seekings. Moving backwards is much safer and secure practice.It instantly puts the mind off. This is such a learning. I am done with all the void stuff for sure. WOW.

After this even if there is no more further learning I will still consider my life worth living.

28 December 2009

The results of single minded practice:

Hi Ed hope things are good with as I know they are they way there suppose to be.
All is well here. I have told you of my three times of spontaneous sensations of bliss, peace and unbearable happiness. Once with Lester Levenson's recordings and two times reading Roberts Collected works. These sensations occurred when not in actual meditation. They lasted about an hour and a half each time.
Thats when I wrote you and stayed with you and only you and your suggestions. You suggested Nisargadatta Gita which I have been doing almost regularly as well as reading Chapter 8 The path of Sri Ramana which has been on again off again.
About two months ago I felt I reached consciousness for about twenty min and felt No I, No me, No body, Nothing. with extreme happiness and bliss. This has deepened my sittings tremendously. Again same sensation last week for an hour. Throughout the day I am working to stablize here. Interesting enough almost anytime I stop doing anything I automatially fall into silence.
Since the last two months my sittings which I start with listening to the silence then bring in the I am sensation are exactly what you describe in your practice page and what Bernadette calls the unitive mind. This happens almost daily in my sittings as is usually easily found.
I do just stay on your website Nothing else.as well as your direction only.I read Collected Works almost daily, the Gita. No tv very little radio and also some Indian chanting at least I think its chanting. I do want to deepen with this and would like to read some more of the powerful books you have suggested, yet I feel being new it may be best I stay here a while for a good foundation. Meditation and homework. I do need to work on homework what are suggestions. I value your suggestions please feel free. Thanks Ed, myself and others here appreciate what you have done for us. Yea I know it is not real! Hopefully I will realize that.


23 December 2009


I have read this dialogue before, but this time I am getting emotional. The wife says I am a hard-nose, but Ed, this exchange between teacher and student is overwhelming. It is beautiful! This exchange has been answering questions for me left , right and centre. I don't know if you are aware of how much benefit you are to us - but big fella, what you are doing for us is down-right amazing. I could never have imagined, in all my dreams, that I would get to take part in such an adventure. I just can't say thank you enough Ed. Thank you very , very much my friend, for allowing me to be part of your extended family. Just amazing!


20 December 2009

Just found this interesting website that refers to a meeting with Robert Adams in Warner Park.


He mentions me too.

12 December 2009

It is hard to deny Robert's opinion that earth is the lowest of hells.

Nepal begins controversial animal sacrifice festival

A Hindu devotee slaughters a buffalo in Bara district, some ...Hindu devotees and Nepalese police walk past the slaughtered ...
Thu Nov 26, 2:31 AM ET
Thu Nov 26, 2:31 AM ET

08 December 2009


Last night a dream shook me.

I was visiting a very dark and crowded place in my dream this time. It smelled and had  very disturbing scenes.

I saw animals of all kinds ,dogs,parrots,donkeys,elephants,cats,cows,birds all tied together to be butchered Sir. Also there were men too who were tied for the same. They were to be used for food. All of them were crying and yelling and shouting. They were telling us how can you use me for food?

I was devastated.Totally moved. Even as I am writing to you I feel the pain of the animals and the men to be butchered. Many amongst us were buying and I could do nothing to stop them except be in deep pain and cry. I felt no difference between them and me even when I know it was all a dream. Consciousness took me there for a reason perhaps.

You see Edji previous to my samadhis  and oneness (since the two months ) which are now flowing continously  due to Your Grace, I was a Non-vegetarian. After the continuity of these samadhis I automatically reject non-veg food of any kind. I have lost total taste of them and felt vomiting once when I had chicken in between my samadhis.

I never believed in the past that consciousness had anything to do with food but now the rejection of non -veg and this dream makes me feel disgust of my past consumption.

I have no idea of the authenticity of hell or hades but I nearly felt I was visiting a really bad place. For me the purpose of this dream was to emphasize treating men and helpless animals alike. I do not know but it has rattled me to pieces and I am in pain even now.

Do you think Non-veg food should therefore be avoided at any cost in the early stages itself by a Sadhaka and not wait for the rude awakenings later in advanced stages of consciousness like in my case?


You understand now why I am so protective of animals? There is an extraordinary amount of pain and guilt in anyone who kills and eats animals. When you stop, good things happen almost immediately, and it feels like a weight is lifted from your conscience. Yes, being a vegetarian is important. Robert stressed it. He said sex was alright, but eating meat not only held you back, but created pain inside the person who ate meat. Yes, being a vegetarian is of immense importance, not least so to the animals.   


This is such an important lesson in my life you gave me Edji. You have saved me from hell. I realized later what good is all this consciousness if I can not feel the pain of animals. I never felt so low in my entire life. It was terrible, all that yelling and shouting. All animals were talking in language I could understand very well but I was so helpless. It has shook me completely. Perhaps it was needed but I pray no one goes through what I went.

05 December 2009

One February Talk by Robert is now working again; click it: 


04 December 2009

Download the Collected Works of Robert Adams, Volumes 1 & 2.
These contain all the transcripts from which the book Silence of the Heart was created through editing. It is a 1.4 megabyte download and consists of over 400 pages.


03 December 2009

From S:

Soon after we last spoke I experienced unity consciousness for the first time. Now, as Rajiv describes, sometimes I am one with consciousness and sometimes I witness it. If I’m feeling like a body I can rather easily (most of the time) remind myself that I am not the body and I get back to association with consciousness, i.e. drop the body sense. Soon after experiencing oneness with consciousness, I burnt off the emotional/feeling aspects of bliss that I was experiencing since almost the beginning when you prescribed to me my practice, i.e. grabbing a hold of I am and sinking back into it.

Meanwhile, I have been seeing through consciousness periodically. Most of the times it feels like I’m tunneling through the center of consciousness and what’s seen through is purer than pure and transparent (in contrast to my otherwise typical experience of consciousness which is more ether-like and emotionally intoxicating). Soon after tunneling forward so to speak I started to try to bring my awareness to the background of consciousness (as you say to do in your writing). That ultimately lead to a “barreling” back through my gut and through the tunnel (in front) everything became silent-like, devoid, and rather detached from me. A few times I felt I stood apart from consciousness and watched it flow by.

A few days ago I went totally stupid feeling for a hour or so. I didn’t know anything. Here I’ll mention that my experience of consciousness will now and then fill up with complete knowingness. I was getting ready to email you to ask what I’m experiencing and what to do from here when I read your dialogs with Rajiv, where you described the causal body, and realized this is seemingly what I’m starting to experience. Naturally, I ask for your feedback and recommendation on what to do from here, other than continue as I am.

I have a very intense desire to go beyond consciousness to the absolute. I feel like I understand what the absolute is, or shall I say, what it is not. Intellectually I know it’s that which is beyond and no description is possible; I feel like sometimes I can associate with that. Am I simply deluding myself?

Always grateful,  

My Response:

You are not deluding yourself at all. It is a feeling, but without an
awake body being aware, it is not felt.  Yes, you can back into it.
Become the subject, and on the way, do Samadhi on consciousness as you are doing.

Yes, it appears you are aware now of the causal body. Becoming stupid is VERY, VERY important.

You are doing fine.  I am glad you have come this far so soon.

More from S:

I will do what you say. When you write me I ponder over it, over and over again until I feel I understand at the deepest level.

The thought has crossed my mind more than once that my OCD has helped me progress quickly on the path. My mind is very obsessive, and I have used that to obsess over self realization. Moreover, my OCD since childhood has to a certain extent not allowed me to enjoy life as others do; so since association with the mind/body has never been too pleasurable for me, it wasn't that hard to give it up.

I'm in meditation pretty much all waking hours. I'm always at it. In
addition to practice, I live a clean life. I'm 100% vegan. Beyond, I eat bland, no sugars, no salt, no spicy foods. Of course no kinds of drugs or alcohol. I do not watch any TV, occasionally part of a movie while sitting with my family. I cut out all reading of news. Only thing I read really is your website (over and over), Robert, and your blog. Lately I haven't had a desire to read much other than your website and blog. Anything and everything I can think of doing to quiet my mind, I do. 

Downloadable booklet on Self-Knowledge and Liberation for meditators and Yogis:

Ramana, Nisargadatta and Robert Adams, all advised continuous self-inquiry as a practice. Such meditation or self-abidance generates Dhyana power which walks hand in hand with self-understanding and liberation. This booklet contains the essence of the dialogues between Rajiv Kapur and I regarding his journey. 

02 December 2009


Sir I feel the ways of the consciousness cannot be predicted. Sometimes she invites me to be a part of Her, which is oneness and sometimes I observe Her only as a witness. There is a clear subject (ME) and a clear object (consciousness) like today’s dhyaan.

I am very careful not to put effort in bringing about this oneness. A thought does come  but i am very watchful. Any such exercise of will would be "concentration" and not awareness of the Void. So any effort TO "BE" is actually NOT to "BE". It is still a kind of seeking, wanting to repeat an earlier experience.

EDJI Comment:

Don’t be afraid of making effort. A lot of homework is necessary before training becomes effortless. This is the fault of many teachers, requiring no effort. No homework, no effort, means no deepening. Instead they tell students they don’t exist and any effort creates a dichotomy that creates a barrier to becoming one with consciousness. Perhaps this will work if you are constantly in the presence of a self-realized being, but not if you are alone.


The I-AM is the Samadhi state, the pure oneness state. It is in this beingness state that one is introduced to the blissful consciousness. This is the natural joyous state of one being empty of all identification except that of consciousness itself. I am the blissful consciousness.
"I am not Rajiv, not a son, not a father, not a disciple, not a dealer, not a yogi or a jnani, etc.” I am what i was before all this identification took place.

I bow at your feet again and again,


Edji i feel the Master’s Grace all the time now. Yes Sir the Oneness remains most of the time now.

During waking stage:

Oneness remains like before. Heavy intoxication remains with 3D effects of objects most of the days. The objects seem closer to me than usual. Thoughts/emotions are unreal now. I find it "hard" to identify with them but i am learning to "act" in front of others just to remain "normal." It is like thoughts/emotions come, i watch and then i decide how to react. All happens quickly but automatically. The consciousness takes care of all that.

I am not practicing watching or being aware consciously, its just happening on its own Sir.

Nothing disturbs the intoxication or blissful awareness, i am watching a new movie show each day. :-)

I really wonder many times what the hell most people are doing, wasting their life over petty issues. They are missing the real fun. This is one thought i can say i usually identify with hahaha...

During Dhyaan:

I sit crossed legged but do nothing. I simply look at the void. An hour and half pass like a minute. The void sticks to my forehead seems closer than usual.

I am beginning to be aware of two states during my dhyaan.  One is waking state where i witness the void in front of me and also if any thought intrudes (this is automatic, no effort). In between suddenly i realize images coming from no where, few absurd and meaningless images and thoughts come to fore. I am in dream state. This is the calm dream state. I see it and as i watch it i am back to waking state.
So i now shuffling between dream and wakeful, wakeful and dream states.

Since i observe these states i am obviously not the void, not the wakeful state and not the dream state. So now i try and see what exactly am i? Only the void ahead of me can try and figure out the real "ME,” the witness.

But it is like a void ahead of me watching the void at the background.

But as i was watching from the void the attention towards the "ME" is felt at the heart center. The real ME may not exist as an object but is felt as another Void at the heart center. This is where usually the void melts into, meaning i get a sinking feeling like the void ahead sinks within the background void "ME" at the heart. Is it so Edji?

EDJI: This is all illusion. Don’t get lost in all this. Pay it little heed. Although this is fun, the understanding is only of appearances, not the unchanging real. Not of YOU.

In the end there is only one Void, but it has many aspects. Pay careful attention to the appearance and quality of each void, and whether any “feel” like the subject, the witness.


In both the above there is only a void emptiness which is merging with another void emptiness. But WAIT, then i realized the background void cant be ME as i can witness the merging of the two voids. So where am i then??  Am i the one who is witnessing all this merging too??? IS IT SO?


Of course! Right now you are realizing this as an understanding, a concept. But a point will come when all states are seen as unreal and apart from you, and you are that witness—the subject.


So is it that the void ahead and the void at the background which i considered ME is just ONE void and the real ME actually cannot be known or experienced or even pointed out. In that sense i dont exist. Is it so Master?


Yes and no. You are paying too much attention to conceptual understanding.

On one hand, I will say yes, it is so, and provide pointers toward the final understanding in terms of another conceptual context, which are a separate set of pointers:

The Void exists in mental space and contains all of consciousness, but is not you. This is a property of the subtle body.

Deeper is the causal body, which is a deeper Void; no experience here is possible. Only total not knowing.

You are beyond all that as the subject.

Your only knowledge of your deepest existence comes from awareness of that which is not you; i.e., consciousness, Void, the body and the world. You can only BE that deepest self.

But you have to pass through the causal body yet, and give up all
knowledge and knowing.

All that you are experiencing is unreal. It is mind and the play of consciousness. In the real Void, all this disappears. Your mind is playing tricks on you creating all these insubstantial entities and experiences. They are universal experiences, universal forms, yet they are only appearances.

Don't interpret yet about voids and all that; just witness the unfolding of consciousness. You need to get beyond trying to understand the unfolding of consciousness.

When all is said and done, when you complete your training, you are always aware of yourself as the subject, while the world is your emanation. You are aware of yourself as the subject, only because you are still experiencing the world and body. When the body goes, the Witness will have nothing to witness, and the Witness with appear to be no more.

The greatest mystery is that you are not consciousness and the world, but in another sense it is you, it emanates from you. These are two different understandings that are only apparent contradictions. These sentences are both true as appearances, but at different levels.


"The void exists in mental space and contains all of consciousness, but is not you. This is a property of the subtle body"

Ok all of consciousness is subtle body and what i am witnessing at the moment are experiences of the subtle body.

"Deeper is the causal body, which is a deeper void; no experience here
is possible. Only total not knowing."

This is  beyond the subtle body and so beyond consciousness itself. So knowing and experiencing is not possible here. But Sir if i do not experience anything how will i know at all this is causal body? Is this similar to a deep sleep state where i can not recollect any experience?

"Your only knowledge of your deepest existence is awareness
of that which is not you; i.e., consciousness, Void, the body and
the world. You can only be that deepest state"

WOW, I am even beyond causal stage. Edji this looks like a long, long journey to me.
Lot of learning and understanding is yet to come.
I know i stand apart from consciousness so i am not that, but to truly "know" the real subject, i will have to go beyond the void and even casual state. This looks like a lot need to be done.

"just witness the unfolding of consciousness. You need to get beyond trying to understand the unfolding of consciousness."

Master i do not want to sound like i am trying to seek reaching somewhere through using effort, but i am very keen to further enhance my understandings regarding the causal body and beyond it. Since long i am only at the consciousness level exploring astral or subtle experiences.

Edji who will lead me beyond and how?

Do i continue watching and witnessing the Void like i am doing at the moment? Is there anything more i can try to get beyond? Do i Put in more hours in dhyaan?

Please Sir your guidance is most needed.

I bow,


All that I am telling you is concepts, causal body, subtle, etc.

They correspond to different types of knowing or not knowing which are universal.

Right now you are in knowing oneness, but that is illusion. Still you
have you know it to go beyond it.

Next comes becoming totally stupid--letting go of knowing and
awareness. It often feels like death--and it is death to the I Am
consciousness. But you have to get used to being nothing. Now you are getting acquainted with the nothingness of the Void, but a deeper
nothingness means only darkness and not knowing.

You can feel what it is like--at least for me--by sitting in
Padmasana, and letting your consciousness leave your head and go
downward into your body into the belly. Focus your mind in your belly. Deep sleep is another similar state.

At some point, you should experience a "dropping" of your conscious center to the belly, and just before it drops, it will feel like your brain is becoming hard and dense as a rock and your awareness of luminous consciousness will disappear. You will pass through a state like sleep where there is nothing at all. There is no you there. No consciousness, no experience.

After your mind drops into your belly, you will instantly become one with everything. All the world will be no different from you. There will be no division between your body and the world. The body disappears and you are the world in total Samadhi. This is your “glimpse” state carried to the ultimate end.

That brief period when the mind is dropping, is the state of forgetfulness that you will need to repeatedly experience. The apparent you passes through it, from one state of knowing consciousness, to knowing nothing, and they perfect Samadhi with everything. You know it as a memory of passage.

This stage is very important. It must be lived in everyday life too: knowing nothing, not having an opinion or idea. It is one way the world you dwell in is destroyed and transcended.

You are having great fun now in consciousness and I don't want to stop it. Just know it is imaginational, not real. Neither is forgetfulness. No state or body is real. It is a function of you, but no more real than a dream.

By the way, anything said about dropping the center of consciousness to the belly, is also true about that center dropping to the heart. It is just that the Zen way I practiced emphasized the belly rather than the heart.


WOW! You have revealed to me the greatest secret of what means "self-realization" or actual Liberation. Most know that it is unknowing state but you have even revealed How. I am speechless with awe Sir.
One will switch from knowing (consciousness) to unknowing (thru the navel) and vice versa through repeated such learnings and experiences. And then know we are beyond such knowing and unknowing too.

EDJI comment:

Actually, knowing the causal body will happen on its own as the mental experiences are seen through. The belly technique just gives you a method to understand nothingness better and more quickly. It is not essential.


I intellectually know this now yet i will want to reach this on my own.
You are 100% right Master that i am having lot of fun with Consciousness and still identify with Her. I shall continue to remain in that I-AMness. I shall Hold her tight to me as Maharaj says in Gita and let Her alone lead me there whenever the time comes.

I shall write as i get something new to tell.

I am most fortunate and blessed to know you Sir.


So a Sadhaka now watches the arising and fall of all these 3 states in himself. And thus knows now that He is beyond them. Is this correct conception??


YOU are not a thing, but something is there. It is the subject, but it
does not exist like the universe exists.

The concepts of existence and non-existence apply to the visible, the observable. But YOU, the observer, the subject, are beyond all
qualities like existence and non-existence.

Don't try to figure this one out. You will understand when the time is ready.


All this learning from you Sir is difficult to comprehend for me even intellectually. I am awestruck with the knowledge you have imparted to me today.

There is so little that i know. So little that those who write books on this subject know.  Most Gurus are only talking in terms of concepts and only on the surface whereas what you are pointing is beyond everything one can even possibly imagine.

I used to wonder why you have not made your presence felt across the Globe with so much. But i now realize that this world itself is too small for you. You must reveal to the world all this. Sir for those few maybe, or else they will only wander here and there like i used to.


Yes, these teachings are rare. They are directed towards yogis who have practiced meditation, or Zen students. Most who read this will have no comprehension at all. Nisargadatta learned all this from his teacher and tradition, but spends little time exploring these experiences and issues in his talks. But he must have thoroughly explored all this during the three years after initiation by his teacher. In fact, it is difficult to understand Prior to Consciousness and some of his other books unless you know these pointers.

But Nisargadatta’s teacher wrote on all this, as did Nisargadatta’s Dharma Brother, Ranjit. I think Maharaj knew it was better to bypass all this instruction, as essentially, in the end, it is found to be unreal and conceptual. These concepts are pointers from a different time, but they fit you and other yogis who are well aware of the vagaries of consciousness.

In the end, after all is said and done, you can only be yourself. In Zen this was called returning to the marketplace.